As We Grow
We both love Jesus. We both love learning. And we needed a place to talk about it! Join our conversations with one another as we grow in our walks with God.
As We Grow
BONUS EPISODE: Book Club "Victorious Emotions" by Wendy Backlund
We're back with another bonus episode and book review about the book that is transforming our lives right now (this is NOT an exaggeration): Victorious Emotions by Wendy Backlund. This book has already come up in previous episodes and will continue to pop up in future conversations--it's that good!
Order your copy today!
We highly recommend you couple it with John Bevere's Bait of Satan.
And for our favorite book on identity, check out Jame Winship's Living Fearless.
Here's where you can find the Emotion Wheel put out by Connection Codes.
*Contains affiliate links
Hello, I'm Joy, and I'm Gretchen. We both love Jesus, we both love learning, and we needed a place to talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Join us twice a month as we discuss our top two. Each of us will bring something we've recently heard, our learning, or a mulling over about our faith or a walk with Jesus. And then we'll talk about it. Come along as we grow in our walks with God.
SPEAKER_00:Hello. Hello, we did it.
SPEAKER_01:We did it. This podcast took a little while to get to your ears.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of drama's not the right word. Just time. Just life happening.
SPEAKER_02:It won't, you won't notice any time difference. Because we're still going to release it on the normal schedule. But for us, there was some time that lapsed.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But it's going to be a late night. It's all good. It's all good. But welcome. Hi. Hi.
SPEAKER_01:We're starting off good. I feel it. This is going to be a weird one, but a good one.
SPEAKER_02:I would not feel distracted at all. I feel it. So sorry. I really do feel it. I feel like it's going to be weird, but it's going to be really good. Why do you feel like it's going to be weird? Because I feel like we're just in that energy where we're all over the place. But it's fine. I think it's going to be good. Okay. Yeah. Got it.
SPEAKER_00:But if you're a type A like me, you might want not want to tune into this one. George's like, for me, this feels awful. And for me, I'm like, yay! This isn't gonna be organized at all. You're gonna be like, get to the point. We're gonna have fun trying to get there.
SPEAKER_02:The Lord's guiding us, so we have everything that we need.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, good. How was my week? It was good. It's a big week for parents of teenagers because it was homecoming. So the dresses and the plans, and I'm just gonna get on my soapbox for just a second.
SPEAKER_01:Do it.
SPEAKER_00:I and if you are a parent or you are a teenager who participates in this mindset, please explain to me what is going on. So the the way that homecoming and all, I think all dances actually are handled now is that A, nobody asks anybody to the dance until the week of the dance. And B, a lot of those people ask on like Wednesday or Thursday when the dance is on Saturday. No. Because here's what I'm understanding. Everybody, well, first of all, if you were to ask like two weeks before, uh the answer would probably be no, or oh, I don't know yet, because everybody has to keep their options open. Oh, that's horrible. For yes, until like, I mean, our plan my daughter's plans changed up until less than 12 hours before the dance. It just was a constantly changing thing because people were getting invited in, because they didn't get invited, or because other people were kind of holding out for their best options, and then they like picked from like what had kind of formed in the last 48 hours and tried to get in on that group, and then everybody's like other plans had to change, you know. I mean, then they're like it just as a type A inneagram one, it drives me absolutely baddie. I think that that's a Jackson thing. Okay, I want to know. So if you are listening, and if your kid is it a is it a Jackson thing or is it a Gen Z or whatever we're at right now? Is it a Gen Z thing? But like they literally are all just kind of like waiting and biding their time and trying to see like what groups form and what they're gonna do. And I mean, my kids are I used to think it was just the other kids, and then I realized this year, oh my kids are just as guilty. Yeah, they're all I mean this is this is how you play the game.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think like I don't know, I do think it's a Jackson thing because like I and I'm not like super into the high school crowd. I don't really talk about you're so cool. I know like some high schoolers through my friends, but like there's no like high school sweethearts in Jackson. Like people don't date long term in Jackson. Like interesting. It's I don't know. It's just like I think it's like a smaller pool, and I don't actually understand why that is, but I think it is a Jackson thing because my other friends, like their kids are dating and uh they have like a girlfriend or boyfriend. Like my one friend in Memphis, her daughter has been dating this guy for like three years, like since eighth grade.
SPEAKER_00:Whoa. It's a long time anyway.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, but here's what really this is this is the hardest part for me. We live in Jackson. There are zero stores. That's not true. There's like one store that sells formal dresses here, and it's nothing, and it's not a homecoming high school formal dress. It's like a$400, like rich person's party dress.
SPEAKER_02:No, I remember our friend last year for prom, her son found a date like the week of, had to then match his tie to the girl's dress, but like it was a pink tie he needed. There was no pink ties in Jackson. They went to every single store. And then finally I was like, oh, he can wear Jacob's wedding tie because Jacob's wedding tie was pink, but like, yeah, yeah, it's super stressful.
SPEAKER_00:That's the only way you can do it. Yeah, and that's why I'm like, guys, especially living here, yeah. Like, you guys need to make plans early so that you can go either order something online or drive two hours to a mall. Yeah, totally. Oh man, shopping in malls. That used to be such a huge part of my pastime, and my kids have no understanding. Now they're two hours away and almost never go.
SPEAKER_02:And the mall is you can't walk around it. It's not a walk around mall. It's terrible.
SPEAKER_00:It's like it's like it's like four quarter hallways. Like you just like jut out just a little bit and then you come back.
SPEAKER_02:And half the storefronts are like empty. It's just terrible.
SPEAKER_00:It's really bad. Yeah, you have to go like five hours to Salt Lake. Yeah. Okay, how was your week? That was a really productive conversation.
SPEAKER_02:My week was good. I two big things. Ooh. One you know, one you don't.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh. I like getting surprises on the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I'll start with the one that you know. Okay, go. I started my sourdough journey.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yes. And first, like you didn't just start, like you're doing steps that I also who also own a starter for ages, have never ever gotten to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're like hardcore.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But I I don't know, I'm super excited because I finally like figured out the like starter process and then got my starter going really good. And then tried to bake my first loaf and it came out a little bit, it didn't rise enough. But I did a lot of research, figured out like how to adjust for Jackson and altitude and and dryness and you know, whatever. And so I'm I'm feeling pretty confident and I'm going to attempt the first love, is it tastes amazing. It tastes amazing, but it I'm actually gonna blame you. You're the reason that it didn't rise.
SPEAKER_00:Because what did I do?
SPEAKER_02:I don't like this surprise. I was trying to use icorn.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's expensive too.
SPEAKER_02:It's flour, it's expensive, but it's supposed to be like people with gluten allergies don't have any reaction to it. And so I was like, I'm gonna make a sourdough loaf and Joey's gonna be able to eat it. But apparently it it's terrible to make sourdough with. Like it's the pro it doesn't have like because it doesn't have a high gluten content, it doesn't make good sourdough. Like the sourdough doesn't have anything to kind of like hold on to. So I can eat that one that's up there? No, because it's part bread flour. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:So uh but when you go gluten-free, um, just like not you specifically, just anyone, just expect bread is gonna always be disappointing. And there is not, there does not exist, don't believe anyone who tells you there is like a one-to-one gluten-free flour that you can substitute and it'll turn out the same. No. You know what I miss the most? What? Hot dog buns. Interesting. Hot dogs just do not taste the same with a hot without a hot dog bun. See, I never eat a hot dog in a bun ever. Oh, well, no, you would don't know what you're missing out on.
SPEAKER_02:My favorite way to eat hot dogs is with mac and cheese from the books.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We do that. But like, I just cut it up and mix it in.
SPEAKER_00:I don't yeah. Okay, random fact about me. I like to I eat foods for the toppings and the sauces. I feel like you're some very similar. Like, and so like a hot dog, like I if I can make a Chicago dog, which means I can put as many things on there. I know that's not the definition of a Chicago dog, but all of that on there and then hold it in the bun and get the whole thing in one.
SPEAKER_02:And what are your favorite toppings on a hot dog?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, like the little the little peppers, peppercinis and cucumbers. Oh, but as like a part of a Chicago dog. So, like, and the onions and the mustard and like all the things. But I love a good pickled anything. And so I get really excited about that. But without a bun, it is not the same. And a gluten-free hot dog bud is a waste of money and time, yeah, and a waste of of your hopes. Your hopes, you hope it's gonna taste good, and it always will fail you. Yeah, anyways, I did I have found good hamburger buns at restaurants. I haven't been able to buy a good hamburger bun yet, but there's I guess there's hope. I don't know. I'm pretty jaded right now about my hot dog buns.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe we can figure it out.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Well, so that was the first. But I'm feeling hopeful for my next go at it because I think I've figured out like what went wrong. The flour for one, yeah, the rise times are different here.
SPEAKER_00:Oh like I've actually found so I I do sourdough, I don't do it gluten-free. And I've actually not had to adjust the recipes that I've had if you use just regular flour. Interesting. So you might just want to try that first.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, we'll see.
SPEAKER_00:So anyway, okay, surprise me. What's the second thing?
SPEAKER_02:I did a hip hop dance class last week. Oh, you did? And it was the best time of my life. Oh, I'm sure. It was first of all, the instructor is a doll. He's just the sweetest, funnest thing ever. It was just older, younger. Younger. Okay. And like, I don't know. It was just so much fun. I was like, I'm doing it every single week from now on. Did you go alone or with somebody? No, I want to learn. For you. Yeah. I've been thinking about it for like since I started like dance worshiping again. I was like, I really want to get in a dance class again. Because when I lived in California, I used to, I used to dance all the time. Like that was my I went like three times a week. They don't have my favorite, like I love modern dance. Like they don't have or like contemporary, they don't have that there, but they have hip hop, jazz, and ballet. And so I'm I'm always free on the nights of hip hop. I'm definitely gonna be doing that. And then I might do like a ballet or something in there. Oh, wow. And I've been because I've been wanting to since I started like dance worshipping, but I was training for the grand and I was like, I can't add on something else right now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I was like, okay, now that I'm done training, I'm gonna try it. And I am obsessed. It was just the best hour of my life.
SPEAKER_00:So do you are you like learning choreographies? And is there a show that I can go to? No, it's not.
SPEAKER_02:It's like every week we learn a new oh, interesting. I wish that it would be more like, you know, you're building on a dance like choreography every week. Because like the ones in California, it would be each month would be a new dance. So you'd have four weeks of like adding on to it, and then you can go home and practice and get better and whatever. But this isn't like that, but it was still so much fun. Oh, that's so great. So much fun. I love it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If you guys are doing something fun like that, text the show. We would love to hear about it.
SPEAKER_02:We want to know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Today we're actually we're we're jumping in with another book review. But speaking of texting the show, I just wanted to give a few shout-outs to some people who chimed in on the last time that we were talking about a book, which was just a couple weeks ago now. But Bait of Satan was the book that we reviewed. And on Instagram, if you don't already follow us, we are just as we grow pod. And we asked what books you guys were reading, and I wanted to shout out some of our faithful listeners who chimed in. So I'm trying to find these and I just realized I didn't bring my glasses. The light source. The light source, we need to know your first name. Hold on one second. Yeah, it's not on your it's not on your profile, but we'd love to know your first name. We love hearing from you. Yeah, and they shared the five love languages of children by Gary Chapman, which we've read five love languages, yeah, love it, and really has changed my life for sure. And then Kat jumped in with Victorious Emotions because the book that we're gonna talk about today because she's in our book club as well. Was reading at the same time as well. Yes, yes, and then my friend Emily, who is always uh listening in from Europe. I'm trying to remember, I think it's Switzerland. I might have that wrong. I'm so sorry, Emily. Anyways, she said that she's reading Untangling Emotions by Groves. I really like that title.
SPEAKER_02:That sounds really good.
SPEAKER_00:I'm very intrigued.
SPEAKER_02:So I want to just add to the light source on our post also commented two other ones. Oh, so she said the the five love languages of children, but then also Killing Comparison by Nora Jones.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that does sound good too.
SPEAKER_02:And when a woman inspires her husband by Cindy McMeneman. Ooh, that sounds really good too. Okay, we have a lot of our cart. Yes, I love it. My wishlist is growing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we would love to hear from you guys. So if you follow us on Instagram, leave us a little hello, and we will give you a shout out in a future episode. Yeah, yeah. And we're reading books or we're reviewing a book again. So if you have other titles you want to share with us, please let us know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think I think what I would like to do actually is let you all know what we are currently reading for book club because the chances are that we most likely will talk about it on the podcast, and then you can kind of feel like you're part of the book club. Read along, and then when the episode drops, you can let us know your thoughts as well. But right now we're reading Surrender to the Holy Spirit by Haley Braun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a totally different turn from what we these last two books. These last two books have dovetailed together really nicely, and and yeah, and so we're we're in that. I'm gonna this is in real time, it's the month of October, so we'll be reading it through the month of October.
SPEAKER_02:So if you want to jump in with us, yeah, we'll probably talk about it in November on the pod.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. Yeah, and the I think I got the Kindle version on this one. One of them was on sale. Oh, actually, I think Bait of Satan was on sale on Amazon. So if you were thinking of getting it, now's a good time to jump on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay, well, Victorious Emotions is what we're talking about today by Wendy Backlund. And this is gonna be hard because y'all, there were like full pages that I was highlighting. This is true.
SPEAKER_00:Let's let's start like more big picture. So we had talked about before how the bait of Satan and Victorious Emotions really dovetailed nicely together. And so, and I can't remember if we said this on the podcast or not, but the bait of Satan was kind of defining what offense is and why you need to get it out of your life. And then I feel like Victorious Emotions is the how.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That explains how do you get it out of your life. And I loved it because it was a little bit of, you know, taking captive thoughts, which we've read a lot of books, or I've I've read a lot of books about that. So there's the biblical perspective, but then also she's got the neuroscience component, which I really appreciate, and talking a lot about the neural pathways and all the things that is going on physically, mentally, anyway, all of the science behind it as well, as opposed to just slapping some verses on it, which the other books didn't necessarily just slap verses on it, but there wasn't that extra level of depth. And then and then I think that she took it to another level because of her own testimony and experience. This wasn't just a, you know, this is what everybody should do, but like this is actually something that I've practiced and here's how it's changed my life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I will I I think I think I'm gonna make a statement.
SPEAKER_00:Oh boy, here we go.
SPEAKER_02:Not like a bad one, but I I I've read now a few books from authors who are based in Bethel Church.
SPEAKER_00:Which this one is and the Holy Spirit one is.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and and I think that they do a really good job of talking about God, Jesus, the Bible, but making it practical and also bringing in their own experience to make it relatable. Like that's what I think I'm finding is is similar in all of them, which is why I like them so much. Yeah. But I would say that for this book, the the synopsis or the through line is that emotions point us to the beliefs we have that are lies, creating disunity and keeping us from our full potential that God made us to be. And so, like if we want to change our emotions, we need to change our belief. Or if we want to change our circumstances, we need to change our beliefs. And so I think like why these two dovetailed really well together is because if you recognize that you're offended, this book is like, don't stop there. What's the belief behind the offense? You know, like, are you offended? You know, someone did or said something to you and you became offended. But why? It's not, don't stop with, and this is something that our counselor Jenna always says like, keep continue to ask yourself why and be curious. Don't stop with, I'm upset because they said this to me. It's like, but why? Why does that upset you? And you keep going, and we've talked about this a little on the podcast before, but you you keep going until you get to some kind of a belief, and it's usually an identity statement, right? Like, because they don't think I'm valuable. And oh, do you have a belief that people don't think that you're valuable or that you're not valuable? You know what I mean? And then you work on changing that belief, and she walks you through the process of how to do that. And it was, it's just amazing, amazing book.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's amazing to me, and I'm I mean, I'm not saying this sarcastically, but it's amazing to me how many books go back to identity and how much I need that. Because I keep thinking, okay, I got this down, and then I go to another book and it talks and it brings a different aspect of identity in, and all of a sudden I realize, oh, I still have a long ways to grow. And then I read another book with a different aspect of identity, and I'm like, and there's another one to work on. So, anyways, it's just been interesting how that's really become such a prevailing theme. And since I have a really like strong Christian background, there's definitely repeated themes that come up in the teachings that I was under on a regular basis. There was some like, you know, like there's like a top 10, probably that everyone would teach from. And I don't remember identity being up at the top 10. Oh, interesting. But I think that we kind of missed it, and not in a judgmental way, but like this is actually so imperative to who we are that it's it's surprising to me that I didn't get more teaching on this because it's such a huge part. Same thing, I felt the same way with offense though, too. Like the Bible literally says it's impossible to not get offend offended. And I was like, man, I don't really remember my, you know, like my children's pastor, my youth pastor, my pastor, any of them really talking about how to deal with offense, even though the Bible tells us we're all gonna have to deal with it, you know. Anyways, but I digress. So identity is always behind there and victorious emotions. Okay, so I'm gonna bring some of my history again in. Now, I have grown up in the age of people, you know, name it and claim it, and let's just slap a verse on it. And the new term that people are using now is spiritual bypassing, where I'm just gonna like, well, God's good and it'll all be taken care of, and just we're just gonna ignore the emotions, we're gonna ignore our feelings, we're gonna just put a verse on that, and we're just gonna pretend like that's not there and let God take care of that. Yes, this is good, and this is and so I was a little like like averse to conversations about emotions because I was raised to not trust them and to just ignore them. And so I really appreciated how this book, while there is a component of claiming a verse that is powerful, that is a promise that God is working, I'm not saying that none of that stuff was happening, there's also that is after we name the emotion. Yeah. Like let's acknowledge it because God gave us emotions on purpose, and they actually have power and they power to reveal, let's say. And if we don't, if we ignore them, then we're missing out on the revelation. And on the flip side, there's positive emotions that we can live in, and I was always taught that on a very shallow level of well, we just the joy of the Lord is your strength, the joy of the Lord is your strength. We're just gonna ignore all the things that are going on around and inside of us, the joy of the Lord is our strength, and and so I I got to a point where I was kind of like repulsed. Well, that's a strong word, I wasn't that strong, but where I was just like, like I've been here before, it doesn't hold a lot of weight with me because there it wasn't a strong, like I can say the joy of the Lord is my strength. I know that that's what the truth is, but I don't feel it at all. And so it didn't hold a lot of weight with me. Whereas in this book, she talked about both sides of those of that spectrum while acknowledging the emotion, not just slapping a verse on it, but also that we can develop neural pathways, strong, positive emotions, and how powerful that is. And that's the way that God designed us. It was a whole component of this teaching that I have missed growing up, but I'm glad I finally got there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think I think it's important because you know, what you're talking about, a lot of what you're talking about is spiritual bypassing, right? Like I'm gonna take the spiritual and I'm gonna use it to pretend that what's happening is not happening. And this is not that. This is and like, and I I could see where that comes from. Yeah, you know, it's just slightly off. And it's because the the difference is is that the motion the emotion is uh the key, it's the way in, right? So you pay attention to it because it helps you get to the belief that you're believing, and that is what you can then slap a verse on, and you know, I mean, there's more to it than that, right? And I'll explain what my big learning was too, but like now the one thing that she does say is we do have to dissociate from our emotions so that we don't identify with them because a lot of us it's we have an emotion and it's and it becomes our identity, like you know, no I'm sad because no one values me, like, or like I'm not worthy, or no one likes me, you know, and then it's like well, of course I'm sad because no one likes me, you know, and that becomes your truth. And so you have to just like the feeling is is just a clue. So it's not who you are, it is just a clue. And she says, what did she say? Oh man, she said something really good. Oh, right. Like we have to we have to recognize that we are not battling who we are but what we believe. And I think a lot of us will like go into if we have done any counseling or work on ourselves, it's okay, we do know that we need to go into the feeling, why am I feeling this? But then we get to a place of it's like, you know, I'm I'm just not a go-getter, and I'm not successful, you know, like so. I have to now do things to make myself successful, and she's like, no, no, that's battling who you think you are. You have to not like stop identifying with the thought, I'm not successful, and you have to partner with what the Bible says that we are triumphant, we are victorious, like we are made in God's image, you know. Partner with that, make that your identity, and then your actions come from that belief. So often we do it backwards and we try and change our actions to make an identity true, but the Bible tells us who we are, you know. So, like, and she has a great point in the book towards the end, but it says, you know, you don't judge an apple tree as something different because in the first two years it doesn't produce apples. You plant the seed, the second that the sprout comes up, you're like, that's an apple tree, but it hasn't produced any apples, you're just calling it that because it is. And that's what she's like, that's what we need to do with us. Like, we need to look at ourselves, look at the Bible. What does the Bible say about us? And we have to believe those identity statements, and then our actions will come from that, then we'll start producing the fruit from that belief.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yeah. I think that that's a great illustration of what we started off talking about, but just kind of explaining it even farther. It reminds me of what we read about in Celebration of Discipline, where Richard Foster talks about will worship, where we get this idea. that we can like if I just have enough willpower I can power through it and that we will our willpower will always fail us. But I think that that was a big component of me of what I was taught growing up is that oh if I just like hold on to this verse and I really like say it enough times and really believe it like again it's more of that my willpower trying to push it through as opposed to like you said scratching back the layers and getting to what's the identity behind this? What's the belief behind it? And like I said we're gonna go back to identity over and over again. But that's where you start because if otherwise it's just like I don't know a hamster wheel. We need Jenna for analogies. I was like Jenna you have the gift of analogies you can always come up with a good one. But it's like it's like the hamster wheel where you're putting out so much effort to get to a a destination that you're never going to get to because you're just spinning. Yeah and unless you turn the the way that you address these things around to the proper way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah and I think like a couple things right off the bat that were big for me like she says in like the first five chapters I don't know is like is our circumstances don't determine our emotions and I think for my life I have been like well like I've been a victim almost to my circumstance like I can only be happy if things are going great you know and this this feels better you know it's like oh no it's the same thing as like offense right that we were talking about with Bait of Satan that the situation the thing that happens that makes you offended is just a mirror to show you what's already in you and so the circumstances around you are that's not the thing that's causing your emotions because two people can experience the same thing and walk away with very different emotions. And that's because of the way that we are believing and she uses the biblical story of when you know the Israeli spies go to spy on the promised land before they decide what they're going to do to take it over. God had promised them this land. This is the land of milk and honey it is yours. I'm giving it to you and they send spies in to go and check it out to see how they're gonna like take this land and they see giants and you have I think were there 12 spies or oh yeah I have a song for you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh I can't sing here we go do it yes 12 men went to spy on Cain and 10 were bad and two were good. There's hand motions do them with me guys I know some of you are know this what did they see when they spied on Canaan 10 were bad and two were good. Some saw giants big and tall some scrapes like clusters fall some saw God wasn't it all 10 were bad and two were good.
SPEAKER_02:I love it okay yeah so there's 12 spies that go in 10 of them saw the giants and said it's impossible this we can't do this. We can't win this war and two came back and said there are giants in the land we can take them we got it got it to us yeah and so it really comes down to what you're believing.
SPEAKER_00:If you are listening to this here's a practical like I'm sure I'm guessing all of you have had this experience at some point have you ever been in a situation that was like high anxiety high fear or like intense sadness and just like sadness in the sense of like horror feeling like horror because of of this this really horrible situation that you're in. And somebody walks in and changes the atmosphere as they walk in the room. They either walk in with so much peace or they walk in with so much joy and it's not that they are ignorant of what's going on and it's not that they're trying to like discredit other people's emotions. It's that there's something different about them that they can come in and change atmospheres be and it's because of their identity and it's because of the neural pathways that they have formed going back to God's hope that are not shaken by their circumstances like what you're talking about. When I was reading this I was like oh this is how you become that person this is how you on a practical and a spiritual level create that different identity or those different neural pathways in your mind so that you can change atmospheres. That was my biggest takeaway like okay I'm gonna start changing atmospheres now and this is the the practical side of how they do that because I think I used to just kind of like oh it's just like one in a million person like that or that must be their gift you know like they they can do that but like nobody else can because I also thought I was a victim to my circumstances like whatever's going on around me that dictates my emotions and now I have a vision to understand like actually no I don't have to be swayed by that I can I can choose and I can develop a neural pathway that's so strong that I can constantly go back to hoping that having hope that God is trustworthy and that he's gonna deliver or bring this around to good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah and I think one thing that she talks about and this is where what Joy was talking about like bringing in the neuroscience but like this is actual science that when we have a belief about something our brains look for proof to back up and reinforce that belief instead of looking for proof of the opposite and so there is a thing that happens when you know when you you know when you think no one likes me like let's say that that's your belief. It's confirmation bias. Yeah you will you your brain because that is a belief that you have your brain will find all the ways that that is true and actually like not even register the ways that it's not true. Like the opposite you know like other things could be happening but your brain will filter that out and not even allow it to become a memory or something that is in there. So it's not like you're it's it's different than being like I'm just not paying attention like I know that that happened and I'm just not paying attention to it. Your brain just filters it out so it's almost like it never even happened. And so and so when we change our beliefs like that's why that actually does change our circumstances because like she talks about she gives two kind of well she gives a lot of examples but two that stuck with me are like one you know for the first several years of her marriage she was like well my husband just doesn't love me. Like he's just not he doesn't love me. He's not loving towards me he's failing in our marriage you know and and instead of then when she found out about this and God led her to this practice and this way of doing things she stopped one focusing on like what her husband was and wasn't doing and got down to the belief and she had a belief about herself because that's the thing too if you're getting to a belief where it's about someone else you haven't gone for far enough you want to bring it back to a belief that you have about yourself. And so because if you get to like well my yep they're just selfish and that's what like that's you that's called a judgment. That's not it's a belief that's not it so but she got down to she had a belief I'm unlovable and so her brain was only finding the ways that proved that she was unlovable and the biggest one is to find out that her husband's not loving her, you know but then she started to work on changing her beliefs I am lovable, you know and she started with like the Lord chased after her, you know, and chose her and so he loves her. The Bible says he loves her and like focusing on all that she got to a point where she's like like she wouldn't um dream now that her husband doesn't love her and like he shows it in all these different ways and they have like an amazing loving marriage. I don't think that he changed I think that she and maybe he did once she started acknowledging it more and like it reinforced you know positive reinforcement that you start doing things more when you get positively reinforced you know well and also our bodies are created to mirror the emotions that we're experiencing in other people.
SPEAKER_00:So if she is finally feeling the emotion of of feeling lovable right he's gonna automatically mirror that.
SPEAKER_02:But she started feeling more loved before he made any changes and so like that right there tells you something and the other thing that she says is you know if you have a belief that I I am lovable or I am like someone that people gravitate to and really like then if if you do experience rejection you will be like oh that's so weird. Like I wonder what like what's going on with them. You know like they will totally read it differently. Yes and we actually have a friend of ours who does this and I remember her telling us this like on a girls night and we were like what? Because I was like oh my gosh if someone's rude to me or something like I spin out you know I'm like what what are they seeing like what are they of course like this always happens to me like you know whatever and she was like oh if someone's rude to me I'm like oh they must be having like the worst day and I'm like how do you get there? But it's because she has a belief that she's likable.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm guys this will change your life yeah it's it's simple but it's also mind blowingly hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah she actually goes so far as to say that she goes back to Isaiah 61 a lot and the promises of the Lord and like that that's the fullness that we receive in Christ and I don't have the verse in front of me so go back and read it right now. Pause pause read and we're back but that's the fullness and she says that if you're not experiencing that every day then perhaps you're not believing in the in the fullness of what Jesus died for for you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah I'm glad we're talking about this again because I've already just in a few days since I finished the book have forgotten a lot of this like oh yeah I need to go back oh yeah I need to like rehearse and do and and get to the fullness like I can change atmospheres and I just spent a whole week of being there's my confession I'll do it again later but a week of being a victim to my circumstances.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think it will take time and like we talked about I mean in book club this this these beliefs that I have have been happening for years. So now one I am believing that the Lord can change in me in a heartbeat and so I it's I because I was gonna say it's it's gonna take a long time.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't have to take a long time but I was saying that I think for me my first thing that I'm going to have to like hold on to my first belief is that I can change my beliefs that the Lord can change my beliefs like that I have to start there before I can get to I'm livable like I just have to believe that that that can change and I can do this you know yeah which I think is so insightful on your part to point out because I'm I'm such a like uh let's just like bowl in the China shop get to the end and you're so good at like identifying like actually I can't even get into the China shop. There's actually a step before that I'm like what I don't even like think like that. Tell me more my brain does not compute it. But it's and then as soon as she says that I'm like me too I kind of needed that other step too but I was just ready to just go full force into it. Yeah I have to share one other thing that was my biggest takeaway from this book and it was okay so 2 Corinthians 10 5 we demolish every argument and pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God and we take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ has been a mantra of my life. I do think that there is really good power in taking thoughts captive and I've always thought of it like okay we got to demolish the strongholds in our minds because they're negative and they go against God and we've trained our brain to believe things that are against God and we need positive ones. And in this book she talks about developing strongholds because you can make a positive stronghold. Yes. A stronghold is not just a negative thing and that just blew my mind and then incorporating in the neuroscience the basic idea is something that you rehearse the reason that it's a stronghold is because you're rehearsing it over and over and over again. In the words of neuroscience you're developing a really deep neural pathway that connects one thing to another and so when you are in any situation or circumstance you can train your brain to develop a stronghold that goes to God's goodness every time that's how you change atmospheres because even though the horror is around you you still have that deep entrenched pathway in your brain that says and God is good and he is in control and this doesn't make sense to me but his ways are higher than my ways and his thoughts are higher than my thoughts so I don't have to understand this right now I just have to know that God is still good and that I'm going to put my hope in that as opposed to the circumstances around me. And I can build a positive or a happy I feel like using the word happy is diminishing in a little bit but a happy stronghold in my head so that when I am in situations that are really difficult, I have hope to cling to and that's where the hope comes from it comes from what you're doing ahead of time before you get into the trial. I feel like we talked about this a little bit last week with if we're going the world's way or God's way a lot of that discernment comes from the work that you're doing in boot camp as opposed to on the front lines it's learning like you were talking about you got to sit down and read the Bible you got to spend time with God you've got to pray you've got to do all of these things that is all preparing and developing the neural pathways the way you're going to show up when the circumstances shift God never changed your circumstances changed and depending on how you prepared for that is how you're gonna show up when the circumstances shift.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah she goes through a couple of things that I'll just hit really fast but like like you just said we need to rehearse our joys and our triumphs because the the belief or the emotion or no the your energy will go towards the the belief that has the strongest emotion. And so what you want to do is you want to make your joy and your triumph and your happiness and your you like all of those you want to make that your stronger emotions so you have to one stop rehearsing your sad stories.
SPEAKER_00:Everyone has them stop rehearsing that stop it stop it I'm telling you right now and the the half step before that is to start noticing. So that's what happened with me with this book is I was like oh yeah yeah that makes sense I know so and so does that and then I started rehearsing sad things or I started rehearsing like woe is me kind of thoughts and I was like oh look I'm doing it too I've been rehearsing the negative thoughts that's why I'm getting to the negative emotion at the end. Yeah guys this part is so uncomfortable for me because her first step is to think about like if we're gonna start training our brain on purpose you need to think about a happy or a an incident when God was faithful and provided for you and and remember like the details of that moment until you feel the emotion again in your body that is the really uncomfortable part for me. I'm like no I just want to like I can describe it real quick and then we can move on but you got to sit in it because like Gretchen's saying like it's got to become more powerful than the other stuff that you're rehearsing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I think first your first step is noticing where your energy your thoughts and your emotions are going right so like you know it might be easy if it's something big you know like you're you're in a situation you're having a struggle in a relationship you're having some health issues you're whatever it is and like that that's easy but then you want to look at the smaller things too like one of the examples that she gives is you might be saying I trust in the Lord's provision like all the time you're saying these things but if you're ex like notice if you're experiencing anxiety when you know the before your next paycheck you know like and if you're experiencing anxiety there's probably another thought underneath that that's I have to do this in my own strength or I am not being provided for or I can't figure this out you know what I mean? And so you pay attention to where like every emotion like get comfortable with paying attention to your emotions. Get print out the emotion wheel from connection codes we'll link it in the bio but like in the show notes but get comfortable with naming your emotions so that you can use you can follow the clues to get to the thoughts then once you have the thoughts you want to start rehearsing joys and triumphs in the opposite. So if you have a thought that you're not valuable or you're not lovable go through the Bible start there start rehearsing all the thoughts and emotions that come up when and sit in it until like Joy said sit in it until you feel something don't just say like yes God loves me He chose me. Sit in it until you feel that bring in every other instance that you can think of of when someone showed you that they loved you you know like anything that you can and really sit with that. Then have phrases and declarations ready put them in your phone notes like your notes app put them in a piece of paper in your wallet whatever it is but like have declarations ready to go that when you start to feel the thing that you have felt like your whole life that you can nope go right to the declaration that's the opposite I am lovable. God loves me I am a daughter of the one true king like all of that and then but like make sure and now this is what I had wrong because I had heard her speak before after the women's conference at Bethel and she talked about declarations and I came home and I was like yes that's amazing I believed I 100% believed everything that she said was declarations amazing. But I was just saying words she talks about you have to pair the emotion because again your energy and your beliefs will go towards the thing with the biggest emotion. And so you're gonna say a declaration I am lovable but you're also going to stir up emotions by imagining a future that shows that thing that shows that you're lovable. So maybe I'm gonna imagine myself with like a bunch of friends around me and like you know and everyone's like we're hugging and like people are saying really nice things to me and like I don't know whatever it is you know like and I'm just laughing with all of my friends and my husband and you know my family and we're just ha ha everything like whatever it is but I'm going to like picture that until it becomes so crystallized in my head that when I say that declaration that's the feeling that comes up and then I can totally picture that party by the way yeah I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah it's a Gretchen there. It's a Gretchen party you're wearing a very sparkly very colorful dress. Yes and you're on a stage and you love it.
SPEAKER_02:Yes and we all love you and you're glowing okay but like but so and that's the way and then she says that you will know this is a quote it's on page 21 you will know that you believe the truth of your identity when you still feel worthy even when you have done something unworthy or when you still feel righteous even when you have sinned that's tough but that's where I want to get that's where I want me you every single person that's listening to this podcast that's where we want to get yeah yeah and that's why our our emotions are so important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and that's the difference that in this teaching versus other teachings that I've had is that emotions are not just something to like wish away or cover up or whatever, but they are the connector that connects your your I think maybe it's your awareness to what your well like you were saying like your identity and your beliefs it it it's our cue and our connector that says this is actually what you are believing. This is what you think your identity is and we need to know that and we need to know it for when it gets off base and does not agree with God's word and we need to know it for when we're going into difficult situations so that we can change atmospheres because we are so sure in that and our emotions are a gift from God as opposed to something that we have to like suppress or be scared of I used to be scared of my emotions you know any of that stuff. Not a feeler this one Gretchen's more of the feeler she can feel for both of us but anyways so yeah highly recommend highly recommend it to read with Bait of Satan but also highly recommend and I said this last time too but read it with other people and talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah because even just this talking about it is bringing up more layers that I had and there is already kind of put off so much more in this book that we did not even almost like I didn't even crack open my book I was just going with like sweeping I had I had I mean I had a massive realization about Shabbat reading this oh yeah this book which wasn't implicitly there was it no but it was yeah but like but it was in the discussion too like you were like and this is how yeah the connections were made and then the one thing that I will say if anyone struggles with identity and like for there was a a good four months that I was talking about identity and I need to change I need to work on my identity and what God calls me and da da da da where in the Bible does it say my identity like you know and I'm like looking and I'm like I don't know I don't know and then this book helped me and this was my big realization I think that like write Genesis and he made them in his image he made us in his image so anything that the Bible says about God that's our identity. We can claim that and so that's been huge for me.
SPEAKER_00:So if that helps you all my favorite book on identity that I'll link in the show notes to is another book that we did in our book club called Living Fearless by Jamie Winschel. Oh yeah that's great. Such a good one also super quick read crucial to do with a group and with people that you trust and that you feel safe with because you are going to be real vulnerable with that one. But but that's a great one to if you want to dig into identity more after you read this book because this book covers quite a bit. Yeah okay well we did it we should start we need to make like a rating system that we use at the end of each book review. Oh yeah we do okay out of five uh I don't even know five we'll come up with categories and we'll do it but just general I would say five out of five for me that's what I rated it on Kindle yes yeah five out of five kind of a surprise for me yeah and but really really good yeah okay confessions okay confessions well I'm gonna go back to the one I already used let's do it but oh wait I just went blank what was it you've spent the week being a victim of your circumstance yes I confess that I spent the week after reading this book and talking about how powerful it is to change circumstances I instead went and completely forgot that and became a victim of all my circumstances and brought all those emotions that my circumstances dictated into the room with me wherever I went okay well I will say same I had I I in particular had like a couple of days there was a tough situation and I did a lot of crying instead of like taking authority and getting to the root of the thing.
SPEAKER_02:And then similarly like I was preparing for the podcast and kind of like going through the book and I was like why didn't I do any of this so like share and subscribe
