As We Grow
We both love Jesus. We both love learning. And we needed a place to talk about it! Join our conversations with one another as we grow in our walks with God.
As We Grow
Spiritual Disciplines While Vacationing and How to Pray
Kicking off December with our latest Top Two. Joy reflects on her recent travels and discusses with Gretchen strategies to keep connected with God when not at home. Then Gretchen reflects on her Bible reading from Luke 11, and we dig into Jesus' instructions on how to pray.
We love hearing from you. Text the show with the above link, or DM us on Instagram @aswegrowpod.
SHOW NOTES
Four Loves by C.S. Lewis
Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
*Contains affiliate links
Hello, I'm Joy, and I'm Gretchen. We both love Jesus, we both love learning, and we needed a place to talk about it. Join us twice a month as we discuss our top two.
SPEAKER_01:Each of us will bring something we've recently heard, are learning, or are mulling over about our faith or a walk with Jesus. And then we'll talk about it. Come along as we grow in our walks with God.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you jumped right in. Hello.
SPEAKER_02:Hello. Welcome to As We Grow.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome to As We Grow.
SPEAKER_01:For all of you out there listening, it's only been one week since you heard from us. But for us, it's been a month since we have podcasted.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, we and not even just podcasted seeing each other. I know, it's true. It's been a busy, busy month. November was a big month for me. Yeah. I'm the I'm the main offender on this one. No, no.
SPEAKER_01:It's good though. And so we in full transparency, Joy and I haven't even caught up ourselves first. We just are jumping right into this and we're gonna do all the catch-up. We're in the mustard.
SPEAKER_03:Are you ready?
SPEAKER_02:Did you say in the mustard? Yeah, you were in the mustard.
SPEAKER_01:We need to catch up.
SPEAKER_03:I only heard mustard. Oh man, I need to bring my dad jokes.
SPEAKER_01:But I use it all like now I just use it. I'll just be like, we are really in the mustard, and I won't say anything else. No, okay. I'm just like, we are we're in the mustard. I love it. Yeah. We're doing an early morning pod recording, which we don't usually do. So we're both sipping on our coffee. It feels really cozy. I kind of like it.
SPEAKER_03:I do kind of like it too. I actually was thinking, I need to, I need to bring hotter coffee. Oh living far away. I do want to have time. Put it in the microwave really fast. I'm good. I'm good. How are you? How have you been? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Catch me up on the last month.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like, how do I catch you up on the last month in like five minutes? It was good. Thanksgiving was nice. Yeah. Did you host? No.
SPEAKER_03:Or you went to someone's house.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I Jacob, like usually there are people that like I'll talk to that'll be like, oh yeah, I have nothing going on. And so we invite them over, and then usually like some of the cops. And on my end, there was no one that was like around that was saying. Like I reached out to a few people and they were like, Oh really? Yeah, they were like, like one of my friends was like, I am spending, I'm spending Thanksgiving alone. And I was like, why don't you come over? And she was like, No, I really want to spend it alone. And I was like, Okay. And then like other friends that I have that are newlyweds, they just got married, they were like, We just really want to spend it together, just the two of us for our first Thanksgiving. And I was like, Got it. And then I don't know, like just other people were going back to their families, like traveling. And so I was just like, okay. And then Jacob just really didn't want to invite any of the cops. Oh, really? Yeah. And then so he waited way too long. And then when he did finally, like two days before it, everyone had already had plans. And so I had a nervous breakdown. Oh, you did? Yeah, I mean, I cried a lot. I cried all day. Had you already bought food? No.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, that's good.
SPEAKER_01:Because I know you love to host. I love to host. I feel like it's part of my gifting. Yeah. And I just like really got very sad that like I look forward to holidays. I look forward to everything. And so I'm just like, I got really sad that I wasn't going to be able to host. I got really sad because I had made the decision. I was in worship and I was on Sunday and I was hysterical crying. And I was like, and I kind of made the decision. I was like, our friend invited me over and I was like, I'm going to go there because I really don't want to be. It'll be more depressing and sad for me if I'm home all day by myself, waiting for Jacob to like be able to hop in, you know, in between calls every once in a while. Like that just feels even more depressing. But by doing that, she lives outside town limits, which means that Jacob wouldn't be able to stop by at all.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, shoot.
SPEAKER_01:So it was just like I was crying because of that. I was crying because um, like I wasn't hosting. I was just, I was like, what's my I was crying because I don't have kids to host.
SPEAKER_03:Honey.
SPEAKER_01:Or do fun things with. I just, it all came out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. And you turkey tried it though.
SPEAKER_01:I did. It was my first year. Your turkey trodkey. Turkey trying. I didn't do it in the costume. I brought the costume with me. You did a turkey tried in the costume. Do you have any idea how hard that was to run in? I ran around the house. Irrelevant. I ran around listening Brian's house a few times and I was like, oh my gosh. So for reference, I got an inflatable turkey costume that like was half of a looks like you're riding the turkey. Yes. Yes. It's done. I'll post a picture. Yeah. But so I got that. And my goal was a few things. I knew that Jacob would be working. Like I always knew that. So I was like, I can go and run by the PD and just be weird and make him laugh. And then I was like, and then I could do it as soon as the turkey trot's over, I can run to my car, put it on, and then like come back out. And I went to do that, but I had forgotten batteries. You need a battery pack. Oh no. So I couldn't do it. Yeah. So I couldn't do it at the turkey trot, but I did run around the police department.
SPEAKER_03:Of course you did. Wait, in a deflated turkey basin?
SPEAKER_01:I came home and put the batteries in and then ran around. Jacob was hysterically laughing. Good. Yeah. That's great. And then, and then, and then I did it at our friend's house that I was at. I like it was so funny because I went around the side of the house. I was like, oh, my mom's calling. I totally lied. That's my confession. I lied. No, I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_03:Shoot, I forgot about confessions.
SPEAKER_01:But I was like, I have to go talk to my mom. And so I go outside and I go around the side of the house and I'm putting it on. And all of a sudden, as I'm putting, I'm about to blow it up, Brian walks. And I was like, And he was like, What are you? And I was like, dang it. So I didn't surprise him, but he was still like hysterically laughing. And then, and then I like everyone was sitting in the kitchen for the most part. So I ran around those back windows. Yep. And and I got them.
SPEAKER_03:So that was nicely done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How was your Thanksgiving?
SPEAKER_03:Because you went to It was good. I've been so nervous about this this whole time. Look what I did. I didn't even notice. How did you keep that? I didn't know. I was like, ah, she's gonna see it before the podcast, and then you didn't.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so what you can't see is that Joy did it and she got a nose ring. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I pierced my nose.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Well, first of all, if you weren't, if we haven't listened, I can't remember when. It was in September sometime. I talked about getting it done and you were like, and it didn't work out. And you were like, well, you have to do it by the end of the year. I did say that. And I was like, I was like, there's no way to get it. No, yeah, I didn't have any like way to do it, I don't think, till the end of the year. Because you can't get it done in Wyoming. And and so we have to like go out of state, and I think that's ridiculous. Anyways, wait so we'll rewind.
SPEAKER_01:You can't get it in all of Wyoming or just I can't get my girls' ears pierced in Wyoming.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's just Jackson, but I can't get my girls' ears pierced except at the pediatrician in Wyoming. What? Like jewelry stores can't do it. What? Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That's really weird. I don't even know like what the tattoo thing is. But, anyways, and then we tried to do it in Utah, but because they're so Mormon, there was all sorts of rules and whatever. And it was really expensive. And so then we were in Colorado for Thanksgiving, and our friends that we were staying with, they like the mom and two daughters both all have their nose pierced. And I was like, Oh, I can finally get my nose pierced. Can you guys take me somewhere? And they were like, Yeah, absolutely. Because we had talked about it before, like when I had seen them before. And so so we got it scheduled. My daughters got second piercings on their earlobes, the big ones, the little one didn't want to. Yeah. Anyways, but we went to this place that was like very affordable and very sus, as the kids say. My kids all got an education in objects and toys they've never seen before. I was like, oh, oh, oh, okay, here we are. Yeah. But it was very affordable. So I was like, okay, I'm doing it. And then I'm surprising Gretchen. I'm not gonna send her a picture. Like I was sending pictures to some people, and I was like, don't tell. I sent one to Jenna and I was like, don't tell Gretchen. All she saw was my text that said, Don't tell, don't tell Gretchen. I'm gonna surprise her in person. And like she was like going through all of her texts, and she started kind of not spiraling is the wrong word, but her like imagination started going crazy, and she was like, What did Joy do? Because I had put the picture and she hadn't seen the picture yet. Oh so she was like, Did she dye her hair? Did she get a tattoo? Like she was like, Is she pregnant? Is she like all sorts of things? And then and then she saw the picture, and she's like, she's like, I gasped when I saw the picture. Anyways, it's one of those things. Okay, so here's what I've learned about piercing noses. First of all, it looked, and I'm glad I took people with me that knew what they were doing. Yeah. Because the medium, there's like small, medium, large, and the medium one looked good, and they were all like, get the small one. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, okay, like I totally trust you. And then, and then when I looked at it once it was in, I was like, oh, that looks way bigger in than it did in the little whatever display.
SPEAKER_01:You always get the smallest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then I also learned that it hurts like heck.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I can't remember mine hurting. Was it a needle? Mine was a needle. Yeah. It was a needle.
SPEAKER_03:I I mean I was fine, but I was like, and it was good that I had a crowd so that I had to like really like cowboy up and like not make a scene. Yeah. But I was like, I can't pass out. I didn't realize it was gonna be a needle, and I don't do well with needles. And so I was like doing all my like coping mechanisms to make sure I didn't pass out. Anyways, but then so she put the little mark on with her marker. Yep. And I was like, what do you guys think? And I was looking in the mirror and I was like, Oh, that's super cute. I love where it is. And everyone's like, Yeah, yeah, that looks good. And then she did it, and then she showed it to me, and my nose swelled just a little bit. Not a ton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just a little bit, and all of a sudden I was like, Oh, the black dot was cuter. It didn't look the same. It still doesn't. Like, I still don't fully have uh my nostrils back because I was sick just before, too. So I've still been blowing my nose, so I think I'm slowing down the healing process. So, anyways, but it looks really good. I love it. Thank you. You heard it first here, guys. Oh my gosh. So excited. I've been talking about it for decades. Okay, so we did it.
SPEAKER_01:We have oh, we have pictures to post the turkey costume and I'm making notes.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, and nosing my nose ring. So, anyways, we had a lovely Thanksgiving. It was at the end of a really crazy month. I went to Nashville for a weekend at the beginning of the month, home for four days, Portugal for ten days, both trips without our kids, home for what was supposed to be like five or six days, and we ended up adding an extra day because I got really sick. Yeah, you went down for the count. And then and then we drove to Colorado Springs with the kids and saw our friends, and that was lovely, and it was very chill. Oh, we went to an avalanche game. My girls have never been to a professional sports game. Oh, nice. So that was super fun. Yeah, they really enjoyed it. We were in the the top row, like the very back of the thing, and which is fine. Like the view is actually great for the game, but the vents are also right there and they keep everything so cold. So I was freezing, and that's after just barely getting better. So I was like feeling sick.
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, no. Anyway. Okay, so I'm using context clues, avalanches hockey. Well done. Okay, okay, okay. Because at first you said it and I was like, wow, this could be anything. It could be basketball, it could be house true. No idea. And then you said it's gold, and I was like, ah, hockey. I think it's hockey.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And I don't follow I like I'm from Michigan, so the Detroit Red Red Wings are my team, but I don't follow hockey very much. I just notice if the Red Wings win. But then the Avalanche are doing really well. Are they? They're on like a huge winning streak, and uh and we were part of the third game shutout. Third three third game in a row that they shut out the other team. Wow. So it was it was extra fun knowing how well they're doing. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Okay, I think we're all caught up now.
SPEAKER_01:I think not even almost, but that's enough for the pot, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's plenty.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, people don't really care that much.
SPEAKER_03:Not as much as we do. I mean, we could talk about dancing with the stars for another two hours. Oh, we have so much to talk about. So much to talk about. Did you watch Whitney and Worse? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god. It was the night of the Avalanche game, and so I was like, I waited till after the game, but then I watched it on the way home because I couldn't wait any longer. I know.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, I watched it like I was like fast-forwarded all the way to the dance because I was like, let me just see the dance. And then on Thanksgiving morning after the turkey trot while I was cooking, I listened to the entire podcast. But I'm surprised that's heartbreaking. Like, but you know what? Like that makes me like ABC wanted Whitney and Mark to win. Like, I think I don't know about to win, but at least to be to be in the finale. And they and like because they have never done that before. Like I didn't realize until I was listening that ABC set up the whole podcast with Alex Cooper. Like, that's yeah, that's a big deal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I was wondering because you know, everyone had been asking for her freestyle regardless. Yeah. And I was thinking, I was like, oh, it's not really the same though without the production value. So for her to be able to do it with production was really cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay, let's jump right in. Let's jump right in. Okay, I'll start. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, it sounds great. Because mine is more of a not so much a revelation, but a question. Like I just wanted to kind of process out with you. Yeah. So I had before all of my travel, I had kind of given myself permission to like really like scale back on a lot of my rhythms, especially spiritual rhythms. Yeah. Just because realistically, when you're traveling and stuff, it just isn't the same. Yeah. And it's not even just like when you're traveling, but it's the couple days before you travel when you're packing and stuff, and it's a few days after when you're kind of coming back. And which means like it was a whole month for me of different. Anyways, I thought that like scaling back, keeping things. So I have a like a daily reading plan that I do for the Bible, and it's super simple. It's like a small chapter or half a chapter. So I was like, I will that's like my number one. If I can stay on top of that, that will really be a good connection point for me and a big win. And then things like fasting out the window, really like silence and solitude, even like take those times out prayer. I'm just gonna kind of go through that and just kind of stay in communion with God and then do that reading. And I still really struggled to keep a connection with God through that month. Like I just I and I and part of it was when I'm on vacation or I'm traveling, I just don't ever feel like I can be like alone with God, you know, like there's always either family or friends there, and I'm not complaining at all. It's just different, you know. And I just was like, man, and I just felt, and this is a little extra level, higher level, but specifically in Portugal, it was almost like I was in this like force field that like I felt super disconnected, and it was so strange. Like, even like praying felt like it was just like like I was talking to nothing, like it was just this weird thing, and I couldn't figure out if it was. I mean, that could have been jet lag too. That could have all been in my head, but anyway, I wanted to talk to you about do you have any rhythms or things that you would like to try or whatever that kind of help keep your connection? Because we're going into Christmas, a lot of schedules are gonna be different, a lot of people will be traveling. Like, what do you do or what do you think could work? And we'll all try it for December.
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh. I think for me it's like what is the thing that makes me feel closest to God? You know what I mean? Like, and like just in all honesty, like reading the Bible isn't always it, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So, like, yeah, that's a good question because I didn't I didn't choose it based on what makes me feel closest to God. So that's an interesting point to note. I just chose it on like what is sustainable. I have a Bible on my phone, yeah. I have a short reading plan. Right. Okay, keep going.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and like I usually bring my physical Bible like when I go, when I travel anywhere, because I'm like, yep, I'm gonna still read it every day. But like the thing that makes me feel most connected is like this, like prayer and silence. Okay, so I I do try and like get that in. Like, we're coming up on we're Jacob and I are about to go and be with his family for like a week. And so usually in the past when I have been with his family or even with mine, my rhythm is that I I try and get up before Jacob and then like go somewhere. Maybe it's just like the chair in our room. If we're like in a hotel, maybe it's the bathroom. If we're in a hotel, if it's if we're at my mom's house, I go into the living room because if I woke up before Jacob, I definitely woke up before my mom. So, you know, and then and then I just try and have that like before anyone, before I have to be on for anyone or anything, I am able to just kind of have my silence with God. That's what I try and do. It doesn't always happen, but on those days where I am able to do that, that's when I feel most connected.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And then like if I've done my silence and my prayer and no one's up still, then I will read the Bible. Okay. But like my first step is like, can I try and get into his presence, feel him, you know, and then and then pray and you know, whatever. But yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_03:I I didn't take my physical Bible because it's really big. Yeah. And I just know myself well enough to know I never read when I'm when I'm traveling. I will bring, I like think of myself like Rory Gilmore. Like I'll bring a backpack full of books for whatever mood for like the ones that hit different moods, and then I don't touch any of them. Yeah. And so I finally have just been like, you know what? I am just going, it is what it is. I'm not gonna touch this, and so I'm not gonna bring them. But it does change my experience of reading the Bible too. Yeah. So I guess if reading the Bible is my way I feel most connected, then that would prioritize a physical Bible instead. Yeah. But I do yeah, I think it's gonna have to be more of a silence and solitude and journaling. Yeah. Because it's not as accessible to me. Right. I'd love to hear from the listeners if you guys have what practices do you have for when you're traveling, and what which practice makes you feel the most connected? Yeah. Because I'm always open to ideas, and sometimes somebody will say something simple, like, I know Jenna told me once when we were talking about memorizing scripture, and she she has like a little notebook and she just like she says it, she reads it, and she writes it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And and the writing part of it, and she's like, and I just do that every day. And and that was such a small little tip, but made a huge difference for me. So even if you're like, that just doesn't feel like enough to mention, it is. Yeah, it is, it's totally changed my scripture memory. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think like, and I always think of this. Oh, I can't remember. What was the what book did we read? Was it Celebration of Discipline where he talks about the guy washing dishes who was able to be in the presence of the Lord like while he was washing dishes?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yes. It's technically from practicing the presence of God, which we haven't read. Okay. Which is Brother Lawrence, I think. But it's included. But I think it's in that way. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I always think about that. Like, how can I get to that level that when I am with like other people and I'm traveling and I'm in groups, like I am constantly practicing being in the presence even though I'm with other people. I am not even almost there. Not not even close to being there. I'm at the f phase where I'm just thinking, where I just think about that book every once in a while. Okay. Well, that's a start.
SPEAKER_03:But little bits of better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like how, like, how do you build so that you get to that place, you know, so that it doesn't that it doesn't matter if you're not in your house and your rhythm and your, you know, day-to-day, that you can still have that same sense and that same peace wherever you are, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Which reminds me of our conversation about changing atmospheres. Yes. Like where we are so connected to God that and our hope is truly in God alone, that our circumstances don't dictate how we show up in a room. Yeah. You know, we God dictates how we show up in a room. Right. And I just think about how I guess that that might be kind of like a deeper part of this question because I want to manifest, that's a weird way to say it right now, but I want to manifest that when I'm when I'm traveling, and when I when I feel that I'm like barely connected or with God, then I then like manifesting that feels so far away. That somehow led me to this next question. Because I was traveling with a lot of people in uh from different various walks of life, and I reflecting back, I'm like, man, I wish that we had taken more opportunities to have like real conversations, which makes me think of love languages, and for the longest time, my love language I received love through quality time, and then I and then after I got married, it was more acts of service. Yeah, but it makes me wonder if I'm back to quality time again because I was like, Oh, there was all these opportunities. So my question is do you have like a go-to question and conversation that kind of takes the conversation to the next level of depth and what I wish that I did really I because I think of I do think about this a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Like I do we were actually just talking about this. We were talking about how because our one friend was hosting like 30 young adults from church who had nowhere to go. And and I was just like, man, that's like that's another level for me. Like I love hosting, but and if I was going into it, like, okay, this is like like I did that with the IDF soldiers. I didn't know any of them going in, like I knew that that was the case. I like you know, put on my hat and I did it. But like there is a a very big level of me that feels very uncomfortable in those situations because I'm constantly in my head, like, what do I say? What do I say now? How do I keep this conversation going? Oh gosh, I can't think, you know what I mean? Like that's that's my internal dialogue a lot of the time with people that I don't know. So, and we were talking about how some people are just so naturally good. And like, I'll watch those people and be like, how did they think to ask that question? Right. Like that was such a good question. I think people that have any kind of sales backgrounds, like in like my friends who have had sales backgrounds at any point are really good at asking great questions that like kind of bring the the conversation deeper. But so like I don't know if there's some kind of like training that we could do, but my old boss that I used to work for created this thing called conversation cards. Yeah. Is that what hers is called? I think it is what hers is called. Okay. If not hers. Yeah. And and the whole purpose is like the entire thing is to bring the conversation deeper and to use it like parties or dinner parties and like things like that, or just one-on-one, you know? And so I've thought about like, should I just get that?
SPEAKER_03:And like I don't know, because it's it's so hard, like there's a timing part of it too. Cause you have to kind of ramp up into a deeper question. Yeah, you can't just like crash it down in the middle of a really shallow conversation. That's true.
SPEAKER_01:Cause I've also had people try and do that, and I'm like, ah, like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, oh, I don't know, I didn't want to do this right now.
SPEAKER_01:It's alarming, it's alarming. Like, what's what do you think? Like, do you think that that goes back to like your childhood fear? And I'm like, ah, I was talking about like my favorite color. What do you mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you don't know if they're comfortable with everyone in the room, even, but but yeah, there was just a lot of opportunities that I was like, oh man, this could have been a really great opportunity to just go a little deeper. And I just I wasn't even really present enough to think of that, even in the moment. Like, that's no shade on anyone. Yeah, yeah. I just wasn't like really present present enough, but I do want to get to the point where I do change atmospheres where that's just a natural thing. When I walk in, people feel peace, people feel joy. Yeah. Conversations go, people feel safe. Yeah. You know, and then conversations naturally go to a place that really makes a difference or is worthwhile.
SPEAKER_01:One thing that I'm starting to meditate on a bit is so for we had book club this month anyway, without joy. It was the saddest month ever. I did buy the book. I haven't read it yet.
SPEAKER_03:You need to read it. I I'm I bought it because of your recommendations.
SPEAKER_01:It I mean, it was it's it is a book that I will read every year.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think you'll do a solo podcast on it? I don't know, I could. Okay. Anyway. Or I was like, if you could hurry up and read it. Yeah. I've got like five going on right now, but sure.
SPEAKER_01:No problem. I mean, I was like, it's, you know, because I think it's only like 150 pages. Yeah. But it's C.S. Lewis. Yeah, it's so it's dense. Like there was a couple of paragraphs that I was like, hold on, hold on, hold on. I have to read this about seven more times. What? You know? Yeah. But it's called the Four Loves. I don't think we mentioned that. Yeah, the Four Loves. It was excellent. And one of the things that he says in that book is you don't love people because they are lovable. You love people to make them. Lovable. Ooh. And the way that has been sitting with me. And like even at work, you know, it was budget season recently. And like the week before Thanksgiving, we had to get all of our budgets out to all of our owners for next year. And they have to like approve them. And if they don't approve them, it's like a big deal. So like, and we had a couple of owners who were really angry about like some of the increases and and were flipping out. I mean, highly unlovable. Yeah. And like emailing the owner and CEO of the company. Like, I mean, just like it was a lot. It was a lot. And and I just kept thinking about that. Like, okay, okay. How can I love them to make them lovable even when they're not being lovable? And so I wrote these emails about like Thanksgiving and being thankful. And like, you know, like they've helped me have like like their like calling out their passion, you know, and like whatever. And there's this one owner in particular who's very, very, very historically difficult, who wrote me back the nicest email from that that was like, okay, this email made me feel so seen. Thank you so much. Like you have been really good. I hope that like this, like, is the everything that I have been saying is on a reflection on you, just the company in general. And like it was the nicest. Good for you. That's awesome. Yeah, it was really great. But so I was thinking about that and like changing atmospheres and like what you were saying. And so there is this part of me that I'm like, I think because when I'm in my head thinking, what do I say? Oh my gosh, what's the next thing that I should say? How do I keep this conversation going? That's all about me. And so I'm like, if I could stop my anxiety that like I'm gonna do something wrong or like, or that I'm not gonna be good at this, and just put all of the focus on the other person, like, what are they saying right now? Like, is there something underneath what they're saying? Like, like, how do I like focus on them? Who did God make them to be? What are like what's you know, like, but just kind of asking like myself questions about them and then focusing on loving them to make them lovable? Not that I'm saying people are like, I'm not saying that I'm better at than anyone at all. I'm not saying that at all. We're not but just like, you know, what how can I I think that that might generally help to keep the conversation going deeper?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. That reminds me of a book I read called Never Split the Difference. Oh have you read it? No, it's by Chris, I think it's Kessler, I'll link it in the show notes. But he was a FBI negotiator, okay. And so he basically said, like, the only bad negotiation is one you don't realize you're a part of. He's like, every conversation is negotiation, anyways. But his the way that he would deal with all high-level negotiations is just really communication one-on-one and getting it to be to the point where you are able to like hear and see, and that person feels safe in the conversation to be able to share more or in his case to relent. One of the techniques he talked about, this was actually just mentioned on a show that we watched, but you repeat like the last three or four words that they finished with back to them, and it just immediately naturally opens them up, and then they just keep on talking and that kind of stuff. And I think that some of those he even talks about like the the tone of our voice, how it registers in our head, and like you can get like this he calls it like a radio, like an FM radio DJ. Like I always think of Delilah, but but you know, like at night when they get real low, and you know, it's like real calming voices and stuff. Then he talks about using that kind of a voice, like it changes things in our in our bodies and how we receive things. Anyways, we should read that for together, it'd be fun. I need to go back to it.
SPEAKER_02:That's fun. Okay, I'm linking it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, but I think like that is I love that. I that's super helpful, yeah. And it's something that I'm just like, okay, because it comes from like that anxiety in our head, it comes from a place of like we want to do good for the other person or we want to know more, or we whatever, but we're we still have the focus on us, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, that sums up all my trips. Like I wanted to, I wanted to be more about the others, but I really was in my head about me, like if I was handling things right, and if I was like, I didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable, or I didn't want to like bring up stuff in front of other people that they weren't comfortable talking about, you know, like all of that, but also like I don't like dead air. It feels that feels uncomfortable, but that's me. That's not oh that's me too. That's not them. Okay, all right. Well, hopefully you guys have gotten something out of that. I did. Let's move on to you. What do you have to talk about today?
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh, there were a couple of topics that I was assuming around, but I might I might just keep with questions if instead of like so this one came to me this morning, actually. Okay. So I was reading my Bible and I'm on Luke 11, and it's right after the Lord's Prayer. Oh, okay. And so it goes, it's 11 starts with the Lord's Prayer, and then it goes right into the story about who of you has a friend that if you knock on his window and say, I have a friend coming, I need a loaf of bread, and the friend says, No, we'll not eventually give it to you if you keep persistent. Yeah. And then it goes, and then from there it goes right into therefore, whatever you ask will be given to you. For which of you has a father who asked for a loaf of bread that will be given a stone. And so, and those are highly paraphrasing everyone. I don't have my Bible like, but I think I got it pretty good. Yeah. And so, like that whole those whole those three sections are all about prayer. And and so I had a couple of questions come up. Like, obviously, that's like the direction in which we're supposed to pray, you know, persist with persistence. And then I think in that format, like I I do believe that the Lord's prayer is also a template. Like we should pray that prayer, but then also it's a template for how to like we start with the character of God, we ask for his will to be done, but then and then we go into what we want. And then, you know what I mean? And then we go back to like the thankfulness. I think that that's like kind of the structure that we're supposed to use. But it also in other places of the Bible says, do not be like, like let your prayer be once, like don't be like the Gentiles who pray over and over. Right. So that's an interesting, like, there's if it would appear that that might be a contradiction. I know that there are no contradictions in the Bible, but I do have a thought on that.
SPEAKER_03:Do you want me to jump in? Yeah, I think that's more of a heart posture one because like it talks similar to fasting. There's the when Jesus says, you know, like when you fast, put oil on your hair, wash your face or whatever, you know, don't be like the ones that are out in the street, like declaring, I'm fasting, you know, like I'm so holy. Like there's a heart posture behind it. And he wasn't saying like, don't fast in public. He was saying, don't fast with this heart posture of trying to get glory for yourself. Right. And I think similarly, the verse that you're talking about with prayer is if you're if you're doing it over and over and probably more in public or in a way that is bringing more attention to you and somehow showing that you're holier, then God's like, I don't have anything to do with that. Like I'm God doesn't look at the outward appearance, he looks at the heart. And so I think that I think, I think, without looking at it in context, I think those verses are more talking towards heart posture. I do think that there is a heart posture where you can repeatedly, like, like you're saying in Luke 11, like ask the father and ask the father and like share your desires, yeah, but you're not doing it to bring glory to you or to be able to brag about it later on. Like, I spent 10 hours praying for this, you know. Right. That's just between you and God.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. I think too, like, as I was thinking, and you touched on it at the end there, but like also like he is a relational God. So like if you're doing it with the intention of like coming closer to him to share yourself with him honestly, like that's what he's looking for. And so, like, if your prayer is the same as it was yesterday because it hasn't happened yet, and that's still your desire and you're sharing it with him, like then that's a good thing.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's really important to notice while you're praying, if you're coming over and over again, are again looking at your heart posture, is that based on a fear of something? Like a fear that he didn't hear you before, or a fear that you didn't do it right before the first time. That's a good call. Or a fear that, you know, like something else got in the way since then, because that's not a fruit of the spirit. Yeah. And so it is important to notice that, not to judge it, but just to go, oh, wait, is this like true? Like my heart's desire keeps bubbling up to share this with God because it's so heavy on my heart. Like I've been in really difficult situations and it and I feel like I'm praying the same thing every day, but I'm also feeling the feels every day. Like it's still hard the next day. And so bringing that back to God is different than I'm trying to like use God as a slot machine, and I feel like I just didn't do it the right way the first time, and so now I have to like go back and and or like double down to make sure that I get my answer. So there's there's a yeah, it as as cliche as it is, check your heart before as you're going through. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That is a really good call out. Okay, and then my second part of the question was So how do we reconcile unanswered prayers? I don't have an answer to that. Same.
SPEAKER_03:I want I mean, our conversation about we live in a war zone. Yeah. Like a spiritual war zone, not literal, but kind of. But anyways, helps that helps me hold that intention with the desires of my heart, because the Bible does say he'll give you the desires of your heart. Right. And and if we're living in a war zone, then the enemy is working extra hard, and there's factors that open up the door to the enemy that we don't have control over. Yeah. That I wish we did. Yeah. But there's still heartache. And the I mean, the Bible says, in this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world, meaning God or Jesus has overcome the world. So even though it's not looking good for us in the present, I think we're gonna look back and be like, oh, I see how you were working. I was thinking about this along the lines of traveling as well. I just got this like clear, I was feeling all sorts of anxiety and fear because our kids were home for a couple of the trips. And and I was like, uh, like what if and then my imagination went wild. But I felt this, I felt like God was inviting me to consider what if a bump in travel, if something doesn't go my way, whether it's a delay or an accident or mechanical problems or whatever, like what if that is actually his foresight delaying so that I, you know, like if I if the plane is delayed, now we're missing turbulence that could have been really bad. You know, that kind of stuff that I couldn't, that I I have no way of knowing, we'll never know. And just invite I felt like he was just inviting me, like no matter how it's going, could you just stay in peace that it's that God's still in control? Yes. And so, okay, like this doesn't this doesn't work with my schedule, my type A, like I'm not checking things off my to-do list, you know, I'm not like my schedule's not on anymore. I'm gonna miss these other things because this got delayed. But could I trust that what feels really hard right now is actually God's protection, is actually God's timing. And I don't want to get into the weeds because I'm what I'm not saying is if my friend gets sick and I'm praying for them that that has to happen so that God can protect me, I'm not saying that at all. Right, right. I'm just saying that when things don't make sense, yeah, I can still trust that there's bigger things at play. Yeah. And I can hold on to God and I know that in the end, He has overcome the world. In the end, there will be an answer one day. Yeah. It may not be the side of eternity, but I would much rather trust a God who I know has that answer as opposed to a God who leaves it up to me to try and like make sure that I do X, Y, and Z. Otherwise, he zaps me, you know, or punishes me.
SPEAKER_01:I think I can't remember, I think I might have said it on the podcast, I'm not sure, but I definitely said it in book club. But like I had started getting there because, you know, there was a time that, like, you know, let's say I was praying for like my marriage. And then Jacob and I would get into a fight the next day, and I would be like, it's not my prayers aren't working, you know, whatever. And then I started being like, wait a minute, what if the fight is the way to restore the marriage? Like, what if by getting through this fight, like it will bring us to a deeper realization of each other and ourselves that will in the long run help? And so, like, it doesn't look like it right now, but if I looked with God's eyes, like maybe we're both getting to the crux of the issue faster, which was bringing restoration.
SPEAKER_03:Or it even, I think, in the context of whenever you said it was bringing an issue to light, same like what you just said with the crux of the situation, but like bringing an issue to light that otherwise would have just stayed buried. Yes. Yeah, yes. That needed to be addressed.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. And so that has been like super helpful because it takes a lot of the weight off of the, and then I think it does help to change the atmosphere because I'm not then focusing on what's going wrong. I'm focusing more on like what could God's plan be in this or how is he using this for good? Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I noticed with so we had a major flight change because we decided to go to Portugal weekend. Yeah, the FAA, because of the shutdown, was cutting back flights and it was brutal. Brutal. It was insane.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, Joy was texting me almost every five minutes with, and now we're gonna do this, and now we're changing to this. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is an insane flight day for me.
SPEAKER_03:We were in we were in Denver and like our whole terminal had like one desk open. Like it was it was bizarre how many people were not working.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, oh, the robots are taking over already. Here we go. What am I gonna do? Anyway, and we ended up diverting to another country to get there. And I felt all sorts of peace in the moment because God had already invited me beforehand. Like, if things go differently, let me trust that I'm I know what I'm doing. And I was watching our other friends who were trying to do the exact same thing that we were, and they were just hitting more speed bumps along the way. And I felt in the moment like such a like, it's gonna work out the way it needs to work out. Peace. And I and and that is not natural to get there because there were plenty of other people that were super stressed and super freaking out, and like, why isn't this working? And and it I think in that moment maybe I did change atmospheres a little bit, or at least I was able to show up for myself better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that that really makes a difference, but it's not intuitive. Yeah. It's something that you have to work at. Work for, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Intentionally go for. Good job though. Oh, thank you. I just had all these thoughts of like all the things that I didn't do great, but nope. But no, we'll just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I think that especially for our listeners now going into the holiday season, especially, where there's all sorts of interruptions ahead of us, and there's all sorts of crazy friends and family members and potential drama and all the things like number one, keep the priority. How do you connect best with God?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And do that every day because that is necessary. Yep. So that you can change atmospheres. And then number two, in those moments of prayers not getting answered the way that you want them to, go back to check your heart where are you at? Are you basing it in fear? Then give that to God and trust that He is that what needs to happen is happening.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like things are going to happen. We live in a fallen world, and so things are going to happen, but trusting that God will always use it for good. Yes. In some way, he will always use it for good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And we regardless of if we see it or not, I just I'm learning for myself. I would have told you that I do not treat God as a slot machine. I know better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But I'm the more the older I get, the more I realize a hundred percent I've been treating God like a slot machine. Yeah. And I just it just little things keep getting exposed on regularly that I'm like, oh, see, I was just expecting that if I did this, he would do this. Yeah. And I wasn't, there was nothing relationship-based. It was just I did X so that he would have to do Y. And and it's just constantly, it's like, it's like an onion. Like, there's just different layers of that. And so if you're listening to this and you're like, no, no, no, like I I've got a really good relationship with God. I'm not trying to question your relationship with God. I'm just saying, maybe there's a little layer though that might be God might be poking and encouraging you or inviting you to go ahead and peel that one back too. And that's okay. Like you're not, it doesn't make you a less of a Christian. That's not a thing, really. Right. But it just is another invitation. And my thought is, or my encouragement, is let's not miss the invitations that we have, big or small, in this holiday season.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think too, like one thing that has been coming up a lot recently, and I was just talking to a friend about it, because she just did a sozo session. And so yeah, so we were talking about like that, because I have done now too. And I think like through that, because a lot of it is like guiding you back, you know, to the Lord constantly and bringing everything to him. And there is like to use a word that might be triggering, it's it is there is some magic in that, like bringing things to the Lord constantly. Like, and what that what I'm saying is like if you because a lot of the time it's like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray this because it is my heart's desire. But then the next day I'm not gonna pray it because I don't wanna, you know, not be trusting the Lord. And if I'm praying it again, like, am I not trusting the Lord? Or like I should be praying for other people because if I'm only praying for myself, then I'm selfish, you know, da-da-da-da. And like what Sozo is kind of helping me to understand more is that's me doing it in my own strength. I'm trying to uproot my selfishness by forcing myself to do something that I actually don't really want to do, you know. But instead, I could be my prayer could be, Lord, I'm still gonna pray this prayer because this is still my desire. And I'm also feeling selfish by not praying for anyone else. So can you help me have the desire to pray for other people? Oh, I love that. Yeah. Like actually bringing, and I think that there's so much that we do try and do in our own strength because we think we should, and it would be pleasing to the Lord. And it is pleasing to the Lord that we're trying, you know. But like he wants us to bring those things to him because we won't be able to do it without him. We're doing it for him, but we're doing it through him. Yeah, we can't do it for him without doing it through him, which is a really weird that's that's mind-bending.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, but so true. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, yeah. That's like a whole nother level of slot machine where you're just doing it because you know you're supposed to. Yeah. And so I think like, actually, God help me in my disbelief. That's what I was thinking of that verse.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah, I believe, help me in my disbelief. Right. And so it's like, like in everything that you're saying, like if you're not there yet, where it's like, oh, I am trusting that this is happening because like instead of forcing yourself to trust that it's happening for good, ask God to help you trust. Yes, like you know, go back to the thing first.
SPEAKER_03:That's so good. Yeah. We need to stop right there. So good. Okay, okay. I don't wanna I don't want anyone to miss it, guys. Just hit the rewind two times and listen again to what she said. It was so powerful. Thanks. I love it, love it. All right, so confessions. Confessions. I mean, really along the lines of my time traveling. I definitely got into a checklist mode with God. Like, okay, I read my chapter of the Bible check, and then complained and made bigger than what it really was. Like, well, why don't I feel connected to God? Yeah. Um, and treated him more like a slot machine. So that's my confession.
SPEAKER_01:Gosh, we haven't done this in a while. It's weird. I almost forgot that we were supposed to love. I know.
SPEAKER_03:Oh gosh, that was me just yelling at myself. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, my confession is that I've 100% just been neglecting my relationship with God recently. I've just been so busy. Like, work has been so busy. I just went on a work trip for a week, and like that was way more overwhelming than I had anticipated. And like I was working 12 hour days and it was just a lot. And then, and then just like I haven't also been sleeping great. Like, I did something, I can't figure out exactly what it was, but something threw my body off. And so I've gotten kind of in a habit of like waking up late and then jumping right into all the things instead of taking time with the Lord. So I've definitely been neglecting my relationship with God when that like I want to be doing that more. Like and putting like if another thing doesn't get done, that's fine. But I don't want to be putting off my relationship with him. Yeah. So we should do all of our confessions for December with the with a Santa laugh.
SPEAKER_03:And this is the first, so we need to.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Bye. Bye. Like, share, and subscribe. Oh, wait. We need to tell you also what to expect for December. Yes. We are gonna do our top two, which is our regularly scheduled every other week. Yes. And we will not be doing bonus episodes this week. So that means the 8th and the 23rd, we will not have episodes come out. But this is why subscribing is so important because if you get out of the rhythm, it's just gonna pop up right away the next week, anyways. Right.
SPEAKER_01:So we'll have a release on the first, the 15th, and the 29th.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_02:Bye.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
